Gonna be in the market for a new geared bike, the same money seems to get carbon with tiagra/105/mirage kit as alu with dura ace/ chorus / record kit. So where to spend the money frame or group? I've never ridden full crabon before, so will be giving them a try shortly.

How much are you looking to spend?

Personally I'd always choose frame over group.
My roadbike came with Ultegra which is slowly changing into DA.
It's tricky to upgrade a frame bit by bit!

Agreed

depends on what you use it for really, carbon bikes are rather fragile, as far as i know most people (minus those vain numbers) who own them do races or tri on them and sell them off after a season or 2. i personally think it makes more sense to buy an alu frame with good kit.

what about that taiwanese colnago? arte or whatever it was. looked a good deal to me.

Ribble cycles sell complete groupsets at a reasonable discount. I'd say buy the carbon bike (might have better contact points too) and then in 9-12 months buy a centaur or chorus groupset from ribble and sell your old complete groupset here or on eBay.

Yeah, depends. If I was building a crit bike to race I'd have a cheaper alu frame with Ultegra on it.
If it was a starting point for a long ride/sportive bike with the potential to upgrade it later then spend more on the frame and less on the groupo.

Bollocks...

Can you borrow a carbon/alu bike off friends to take for a proper test ride ie. not just round the block from the bike shop? It won't be true reflection of the bike material you will eventually end up owning (each manufacturer will utilise the materials in very different ways), but you'll get a feel for the difference in character of ALu/Carbon and whether you think this will suit your style of riding.

And groupsets, if you're looking for quality, entry-level components, 105 is faultless - but don't dip down into Tiagra if you can help it,

Have you got any bikes in mind? The '08 ranges are starting to come on sale now ...and '09 ranges being unveiled to further confuse things.

That's bollocks that is. Carbon when built properly is as robust as aluminium and will easily last as long. It also offers, in my experience a much more comfortable ride. My carbon frame is akin to riding on a magic carpet.

carbon frame with ultegra, there are heaps and heaps of bikes on the market (~£1000). also the main difference at higher levels are the wheels. if you are doing a lot of riding the carbon will be a much nicer ride compared to the very harsh aluminium.

check-out british cycling classifieds, some awesome deals available.
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web...sified_ads.asp

Nothing in mind as yet, 1000-1500 ish I think. Not keen on compact geo, so that might limit my choices somewhat, maybe something from mr and mr felt.

...laterally stiff yet vertically compliant...

non-compact modern road bike, WTF??

Here you go...

with DA kit, bit more ££'s than he's asking

Still no mention of the type of riding?

Alu harsh..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

Don't like stiffer, lighter compact geo..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

Hey gizmond, I bought a Planet -X Carbon, with full Ultegra for £1000. It will cost me less as was able to buy it on Cyclesheme. I think they operate on a few different schemes so could be handy if your work has a scheme. At present, its about £1000 with Dura Ace bits. http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/?p=1821 It may be a compact but ask them to change it and they will. All the best bud, J

Focus Cayo, with Ultegra £999.99

Patient eBaying is your friend- my road bike had less than 20 miles on it, and I paid 43 percent of it's cost when new.

It helps if you are a bit shorter or taller than average mind you.

I known people with Aluminium and Carbon frames that have broken (both mountain bike frames though), though this was more than 10 years ago in both circumstances.

Agree on that.

Fixed...

Oh and Roberto has a Time RXS and Wilier Montirola he wants to off load, medium/large, will go on the bay soon though.

I agree with dogsballs in one respect. At your pricepoint, if you're going OTFP, consider frame+wheels rather than frame+gruppo (that's assuming your bottom line gruppo is 105 or Centaur (or Veloce at a push).

I've owned steel, alu, and carbon bikes:

The carbon bike did have a certain 'inverse-buzz' quality about the ride, but it had a hellish speed wobble around 38-40mph. It also felt a bit flimsy when sprinting/accelerating uphill. However it survived a bastard crash doing 30+mph going round the penultimate bend at an Eastway crit, where someone clattered my rear wheel and I was suddenly twisted through 90 degrees before slamming into the ground. At that point, parted company with the bike and rolled about 20m into the rough, but saw a large bloke somersault over his handlebars and land squarely on my frame. The force of the crash also ripped both wheels out of the drop-outs, and mangled my titanium saddle rails. The frame and forks were fine, so carbon seems pretty tough to me.

(The steel audax bike was non-descript, until it snapped just above the bottom bracket shell during a big gear stomp, but I think that was builder error)

The alu audax bike is super comfy, felt stiffer than the carbon bike in the same crit series, but was heavier and less responsive (but that's what you get riding a crit with 25mm tyres).

The current alu bike (with carbon forks and carbon wishbone seatstay), marketed as a crit bike, is stiffer and more responsive than all the above, tracks better round corners, and is comfy enough on the average 50-75 mile clubrun with 105r/100f tyre pressure, and didn't beat me up on some century rides with 95-100r/90-95f pressure. It's got all my favourite contact points, a carbon Centaur gruppo, Campag Neutron wheels, and cost me about a grand to put it together. 7.5kg :)

Bike Hut do a Carrera full Carbon with Dura Ace for under a grand - no idea if its any god though

Fixed...

cheap demo blank carbon frame
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ayphotohosting

Nowt wrong with 105. I'd personally prefer a better made Alu/carbon frame over a cheaper full Carbon one though.

Oh and fuck Sram

I want to try SRAM.. it'd be like being OS Warp in the Mac vs. Windows debate :)

BeOS on linux

I got one of those carbon frames dogsballs gave the link to and I love it. It's the same as the Ambrosio Celcius without the paint job. Built it up with new Campagnolo Chorus and Centaur stuff I got on Ebay and at Whiskers for reduced prices and a set of second hand Mavic Ksyrium SSCs and it cost me 1150 all in. Rides lovely and pretty light, the frame's a bargain at £299.