it's plain gauge so a bit weighty, probably similar to a surly or pomp, i would have it over either of those 2, pomp ugly back end surly too expensive for what it is. but i would rather spend another £50 on a filmore or a discounted at cyclesurgery genesis flyer.

i don't like the bars on the charge but that's just personal pref.

discounted flyers, you say?

i like those kind of bars - be nice to have a change from drops on main bike. the graphics on it are a little too 'metrosexual' for me, though

the charge guys posted on the site when the thread went up a while ago told us all about the bike

Surly bikes are great, much better than some shity entry level bike. I have a crossXcheck which is what I reach for every time I go out on a all day ride because its so comfy, totally bombproof for whatever type of road I meet and rides well under load. Admittadly my only comparison is my condor track italia and a couple 2nd hand road and MTBs in the past but there is no way surly are on a par with a plain gauge frame or cheapo ali bike like langsters.

each to their own!

Love the crosscheck! Met some guy down the snow a few months ago with one looked well nice. a nice cross bike is on my (very long) list, fit what every tyres and ride.

surly bikes are just a bit overpriced (imho) for what they are, generic 4130 not reynolds/tange/columbus etc.
£300 for frame and forks so you are not going to build a new bike for £400-£450. if that was my budget range there is plenty of choice (flyer/pista/filmore etc)
if that was my budget for a frame then an extra £60 on a bareknuckle or bob jackson gets you a lot more.
all my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree.
brixton cycles wouldn't sell them if they weren't decent frames

Another way of writing that would be to say Surly has their own 4130 tubes made especially for them instead of ordering generically produced tubes from reynolds/tange/columbus!)

i think heavily biased views should be kept to yourself, or on other forums
we are here for the same reasons, what ever we ride.

what is wrong with expressing an opinion? you are entitled to yours me and Knucklehead ours. whoever is reading this can make of our comments what they like.

they may think the surly is a bit expensive? they may think it's a sorted bike that a reputable shop that sells loads of fixed gear stuff to messengers and commuters is happy to stock?

i respect your right to voice your opinion about wheather i should voice mine. i'll only moderate it if david wishes me to as he owns the forum.

mr. smith sorry i was refering to knuckleheads views on cheapo ali bikes like langsters etc, i happen to own one and like it, had to buy it as got one knicked, all i could afford at the time. should have quoted.

MrSmith- totally agree with your last two posts. A forum where we all just agree with each other is gonna get really boring, really quickly.

When I was looking for a new frame a few years ago I bought a Bob Jackson instead of a Surly because I thought the Surly was overpriced. I put the Surly frame on par with the Pompino which is much cheaper. They are both good bikes but are both welded, generic steel made in Taiwan - only things is the Surly is £300 whereas Pompino frames were £125. A BJ is lugged 631 made in the UK with loads of customisation and paint options. A lot more what I would expect for the price.

maybe we need some smilies
here you go

:-) :-O ;-)

xxxx

Just for the record, don't think "made in taiwan" is bad. How many frames do you think they make? More than a custom builder is for sure.
You will find large numbers of very well known frames built in Taiwan..

So you agree langsters are POS cheapo ali bikes, but don't like my expressing this view on the forum, just to be clear here so I can avoid offending you in the future... I'll get my coat P)

now now, Langsters are cheap, but they ain't "shit" are they?

they're alu, compact with cheap components, they do the job. not my personal choice because I don't like aluminum, but some Langster riders I know would ride many bike snob types into a cocked hat.

they are cheap, but it does the job,
left me coat at home......8^)

There is a review in this weeks cycling plus of the Plug btw.

I wasn't trying to imply any problem with build quality - more showing the similarity of the frames. I also like to support small local businesses if possible and BJ are more local than Taiwan.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/sneak-preview-charge-plug-8125

i agree with mr.smith that surly are overpriced for what they are. i like some of the other stuff they do, they're good at innovations in components and stuff but honestly you can get so much more of a frame out of 300quid.

i believe in supporting custom builders as well. you get custom fit geometry for just a bit more money and custom paintwork etc.

to compare it to tailoring, custom tailored suits are so much more expensive than stock ones. for the margin you pay you get something totally exclusive, and that margin is comparatively small for these frames.

and there's nothing like this tailor made englishness. you just feel more pride in riding a BJ/mercian than a mass produced surly.

Exactly what edmundane said and even this Aussie would rather buy English than US (national pride doesn't really come into it). Think of the carbon footprint wrt shipping.

How does this compare to a Bianchi Pista? At the evans in Newcastle (well probably all of them) they have 10% discount on everything in store, which brings the pista down to £380something but without pedals/brake/cog for freewheel side. Is the plug a better buy?

guess it really boils down to how it rides then... especially the frame geometry etc, how it fits you. and by the end of the day i assume that buying either bikes you'll want to swap out components and stuff as you go along.

i'm not sure what hubs they have on the bianchi pista but the ones on the plug are formulas. i'm guessing it'll be sthg in the similar quality range. you'll probably want to swap them for miche/goldtec/suzues/phils later.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do really... was just curious. I prefer the look of the bianchi, and It'd be nice to have a bike that works properly for once. As for swapping out components for bling I'm saving such malarky for my armstrong frame.

I like the look of it but need a 52cm and the small charge looks huge!

They look exciting for a mass-market offering but I don't think they will be in-store till September.

Had a pista. It does look nice, but it is cheap because it is, well, cheap. It is not a bad bike, but the welds do not look particularly strong. Additionally, certain things on it are proprietary (like the crank arms which went to shit on mine), which can mean that once they break you may be out of bike for a while.

that's why you need more than ONE bike ;)

Does anyone know a shop in London that has this (the Plug) in stock for a test ride? I believe Evans is showing no stock available until Sept some time.

i prefer the look of the 'tap'...or the 'mixer' without the disc brakes.

my girlfriend is "made in taiwan" and i can tell you she aint cheap to keep

don't think they've been released, seem quite good for people like me who are lazy want something off the shelf I can get on the bike to work scheme...

Just the size issue that might make me switch a paddywagon or lemond fillmore