BB woes - London Fixed-gear and Single-speed

tynan · 26th May 2008

So** I find myself trying to get the BB out of my new frame, turns out it's an Octalink so I need one of them there special tools - but the non-drive side has a cup with notches on the outside so I took the relevant tool to that - gave it all I had (and I have a lot to give) and all I did was take off the notches. :(

That got me thinking am I turning the cup the right way ? This is an Italian frame so maybe it's threaded differently ?

Anyone got any relevant BB removal advice ?

**© emoxfag 08

teenslain · 26th May 2008

Dude, that frame is so sweet! ;)
No BB advice I'm afraid, they never co-operate when I go near them...

RPM · 26th May 2008

I have one of these
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...px?ModelID=995

You never get them off with a chisel or drift, very much doubt it's italian thread but you never know.

big fuck-off pair of stilsons should do it.

they tighten the grip as you turn, I've not been beaten by these type before, at least then you can try it both ways and see which one feels likely to unscrew

hassanr · 26th May 2008

two points. you don't have to use the outside nothces, most octalink bb's have the standard shimano inside splines as well as the outside notches.
if your bb is italian threaded, then the drive side should turn the same as english, towards the rear triangle to tighten/the forks to loosen, and the non-drive should turn towards the forks to loosen and the rear triangle to tighten (they both turn righty tighty, lefty loosey).
ultegra octalink BB tech specs (shimano tech website):
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830608710.pdf

hassanr · 26th May 2008

what does the bb say on the edge? there should be the thread info stamped on the side. M36 x 24T is italian, B. C. 1.37" x 24T is english.

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by teenslain

Dude, that frame is so sweet! ;)
No BB advice I'm afraid, they never co-operate when I go near them...

Cheers, I think it might be the frame I die on in a pretty full-on 'head comes off' sort of road traffic accident, there is just something about it.

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM

I have one of these
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...px?ModelID=995

Is that for (what's left of) the outside notches ?

I think I need the tool that goes on the inside notches as only one side has the outside notches and I need to do both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM

You never get them off with a chisel or drift, very much doubt it's italian thread but you never know.

That was a guess on my part, the frame is Italian and if ever there was a cause to make me think the threads are Italian that would have been it, but I don't know much about that kind of thing.

hassanr · 26th May 2008

get one of these

they're a life saver. they have a bolt inside, attached to the green handle, and is spring loaded. so you just tighten the green bit up, the bolt threads into the spindle so the tool won't slip and knacker your threads. kinda like what RPM has, but all in one piece.
here

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

two points.

Yes, go on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

you don't have to use the outside nothces, most octalink bb's have the standard shimano inside splines as well as the outside notches.

Yes, all present and correct, this immovable object has the inside notches on the cup as well as the outside notches on the non-drive side cup.

The reason I went for the outside ones was that I do not have the tool for the inside ones and my big Shimano lock-ring spanner too fits the outside notches - not that it did me any good as it just tore off the edges of the notches as you can see above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

if your bb is italian threaded, then the drive side should turn the same as english, towards the rear triangle to tighten/the forks to loosen, and the non-drive should turn towards the forks to loosen and the rear triangle to tighten (they both turn righty tighty, lefty loosey).

So both normally threaded, like a standard bolt or screw, this is the way I attempted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

ultegra octalink BB tech specs (shimano tech website):
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830608710.pdf

Brilliant ! Thanks for the info - I have the 1TJ 9802 (Italian thread adaptor) I know this because it has 36x24T stamped on it - so both cups come out 'LL RT'.

Cheers. :)

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

what does the bb say on the edge? there should be the thread info stamped on the side. M36 x 24T is italian, B. C. 1.37" x 24T is english.

It says 36x24T (see post above).

I knew it, it's a bloody foreign one !

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

get one of these. . . .

Cheers hassanr, a visit down to my LBS is in order.

hassanr · 26th May 2008

goddam foreigners, coming over here and taking all our bb's from good honest, hardworking english threads!

hassanr · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by tynan

Cheers hassanr, a visit down to my LBS is in order.

no worries, glad i was able to help! that tacx tool + a massive draper adjustable wrench + lots of jumping up and down has removed a lot of bb's for me.

RPM · 26th May 2008

and you probably already know, putting some wheels with tyres on in the frame gives you a better platform to work against so you can really put some beast into the wrench

jodie_harsh · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by tynan

So**

**© emoxfag 08

hahahah, thats very very funny. Lee can I come over for tea?

fred · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

you don't have to use the outside nothces, most octalink bb's have the standard shimano inside splines as well as the outside notches.

but the spindle is bigger, right? that may prevent him getting the bb tool on to the cup?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

if your bb is italian threaded, then the drive side should turn the same as english, towards the rear triangle to tighten/the forks to loosen, and the non-drive should turn towards the forks to loosen and the rear triangle to tighten (they both turn righty tighty, lefty loosey).

Sure about this? I always thought that italian BB cups are "normal" both sides, so what you say about the non-drive side is correct for both italian and english bb's, but what you're saying about the drive side is only correct for english bb's. Forgive me if I'm being a (BB) tool here, but hassanr, your opinion is respected by many, and I'd hate to see someone taking this advice if they didn't know what they were doing, and mess up a nice frame...

my understanding:

English:
drive side: LH threaded (reverse thread)
non-drive side: RH threaded (normal / clockwise thread)

Italian:
drive side: RH threaded (normal / clockwise thread)
non-drive side: RH threaded (normal / clockwise thread)

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM

and you probably already know, putting some wheels with tyres on in the frame gives you a better platform to work against so you can really put some beast into the wrench

Very true, I managed ok (just about) - should get myself a work stand of some sort.

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by jodie_harsh

hahahah, thats very very funny. Lee can I come over for tea?

I charge for tea.

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred

but the spindle is bigger, right? that may prevent him getting the bb tool on to the cup?

Sure about this? I always thought that italian BB cups are "normal" both sides, so what you say about the non-drive side is correct for both italian and english bb's, but what you're saying about the drive side is only correct for english bb's. Forgive me if I'm being a (BB) tool here, but hassanr, your opinion is respected by many, and I'd hate to see someone taking this advice if they didn't know what they were doing, and mess up a nice frame...

my understanding:

English:
drive side: LH threaded (reverse thread)
non-drive side: RH threaded (normal / clockwise thread)

Italian:
drive side: RH threaded (normal / clockwise thread)
non-drive side: RH threaded (normal / clockwise thread)

Well spotted, you are right, I misread hassanr's original post about this.

On italian threads, both sides screw and unscrew like a normal bolt or screw.

hassanr · 26th May 2008

ah! yes, i just explained standard english threading... good catch (and thanks)! if you look closely, as you did, there are two separate directions in that post:
"the drive side should turn the same as english, towards the rear triangle to tighten/the forks to loosen"
and
"they both turn righty tighty, lefty loosey"
duh, i'm an idiot.
anyway, yes, as you say, they both thread they both turn righty tighty, lefty loosey, so the drive side loosens whin you turn towards the rear triangle, and tightens towards the forks.
thanks for catching that :)

as for the spindle, all bb tools (that i have seen shimano/park/pedros/tacx) have internal clearances enough for both spindles.

fred · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by tynan

I charge for tea.

..just don't ask him to offer you a biscuit

hassanr · 26th May 2008

what's with all the 'bb' s in this thread being underlined with dots? search function or something?

TheBrick(Tommy) · 26th May 2008

Italian b.b shell is 70 mm wide.

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassanr

what's with all the 'bb' s in this thread being underlined with dots? search function or something?

Not on my set up (Safari 3 / OS X)

Sounds like an over zealous spell checker is at work.

eyebrows · 26th May 2008

not the case: wtach tihs stennece for exmpale

Not due to repetition of letters: ee bb dd ff

EDIT: it's funny you should ask this question today tynan- I was just on Park Tools' website to see how to remove my splined bottom bracket + cranks.

tynan · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrick(Tommy)

Italian b.b shell is 70 mm wide.

Yep, well it's 69.5mm (so maybe it was 70mm before facing?).

Am I right in thinking this will have no impact on chainline as my BB will still be centered and the spindle length is what counts.

hassanr · 26th May 2008

ah, probably firefox being weird.

hassanr · 26th May 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by tynan

Yep, well it's 69.5mm (so maybe it was 70mm before facing?).

Am I right in thinking this will have no impact on chainline as my BB will still be centered and the spindle length is what counts.

yup, the spindle length is independant from the bb shell width.

hassanr · 26th May 2008

@eyebrows, are you using firefox on OS X?

eyebrows · 26th May 2008

26th May 2008	#1
tynan	BB woes So I find myself trying to get the BB out of my new frame, turns out it's an Octalink so I need one of them there special tools - but the non-drive side has a cup with notches on the outside so I took the relevant tool to that - gave it all I had (and I have a lot to give) and all I did was take off the notches. :( That got me thinking am I turning the cup the right way ? This is an Italian frame so maybe it's threaded differently ? Anyone got any relevant BB removal advice ? © emoxfag 08
	quote reply

26th May 2008	#8
hassanr	get one of these they're a life saver. they have a bolt inside, attached to the green handle, and is spring loaded. so you just tighten the green bit up, the bolt threads into the spindle so the tool won't slip and knacker your threads. kinda like what RPM has, but all in one piece. here Last edited by hassanr; 26th May 2008 at 09:02.. Reason: linky
	quote reply

26th May 2008	#30
eyebrows	yup.
	quote reply

26th May 2008	#2
teenslain	Dude, that frame is so sweet! ;) No BB advice I'm afraid, they never co-operate when I go near them...
	quote reply

26th May 2008	#23
TheBrick(Tommy)	Italian b.b shell is 70 mm wide.
	quote reply