More apathy dressed up as considered opinion.

Agit-flop?

A slight tangent, but at least some good has come out of this:

James Whale's been sacked for urging people to vote Boris.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...ialradio.radio

Now that is a result

Believe it or not, so did I.

However, it was a case of pissing in the wind living in Hammersmith & Fulham.

Stoke Newington at the Weekend.

white doggy looks very guilty to me.

<edit, Sian Berry was by far the prettiest candidate, but alas I didn't vote for her>

+1, in Stoke Newington.

When I was voting I couldn't stop myself from laughing when I read there was a scrap the congestion charge candidate. A pure one policy party.

Bingo fever, surely.

What exactly is it that Boris is going to do to dismantle the good work?
BTW, I didn't vote for him, and I dislike him immensely; I just feel like I've missed something here.... What is it he would do?

i would consider voting the apathetic option as it does not require challenging the conventional wisdom, or embracing ideas that are uncomfortable.

I voted for Sian (and various greens) too, but gave Boris my 2nd pref. I don't doubt Ken loves London, but he was coming to think of himself a president & not giving a shit about what anyone else thought.
I reckon (hope) Boris might surprise a few people. You never know.

Hopefully he won't give all our cash to his mates either.

ummm he's a tory

FIXED

With your usual flair for spelling I see.

fixed is spelled right?

hee hee:

polo toucan ( if only i could photochop):



+

well, i voted Ken but whatcanyado?

at least Boris is a keen bike rider, i say give him a chance.

Could cut funding for London Road Safety Unit, Safe Routes to School, traffic calming measures, cycle training etc. After all, he was elected on a mandate to reduce to the GLA precept. Those savings will have to come from somewhere.

But let's wait and see.

Sorry, but 55% of the electorate didn't vote at all. So how is staying at home on polling day challenging the conventional wisdom?

What idea is it that I am supposed to embrace by not voting? 'Everything is fucked, let's go down the pub'? Or something else, which you haven't yet deigned to share with us?

I believe that democracy as practiced in the UK and the US leads to undemocratic results. But it is still worth voting, when there are people who are worth voting for. I think Sian Berry was worth voting for, and so were Jenny Jones and Darren Johnson. Those three people have clearly made a difference to lives of Londoners in a very real and meaningful way. It would be rude not to vote for them.

Whereas you haven't articulated a single coherent argument. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you have just trolled this thread. More fool me for feeding you.

So I'll think I'll stick to voting as opposed to not voting, and writing letters and all the rest of the other things. It's called critical engagement.

"Buffalo Bill vs. Chris Crash"

sorry, couldn't resist... such good wrestling names...

A vote for the BNP is a vote for white tyres.

gordon brown has given green taxes a bad name. that man really is an idiot. way out of his depth if you ask me.

what they need to do is up green taxes and at the same time reduce other taxes (say income tax).

if you want green taxes to be popular you have to reduce other taxes by more. that way people are rewarded for going green.

thats my thinking anyway.

and yeah i voted sian berry, then ken. and green on the others.

there was no green for my local council so i spoilt ballot card. te he. my local councillors etc are all useless dinosaurs.

also the lcc. do they take funding from the mayors office ?

Bill would win, I'm not tough at all, unless we do WWF style, then i think i can grow a mullet faster, and would have the advantage.

bill you have failed to address my concern with democracy, and instead called my apathetic, and a nihilist (neither of which i dissagree with, though i probably would be a better nihilist if i was not so apathetic towards it).

My problem with democracy isn't that it is inherently oppressive (which it is) but that it is an enactment of the logical fallacy of Ad Populum. In fact i do not believe that you, or any one could address this problem with the theory and practice of democracy, and that is perhaps why you have failed to respond to my point with out Ad Hominem.

Now lets engage a second problem with democracy: if, as you say, 55% of those entitled to vote do not, shouldn't a democratic government disband as it clearly, according to its own (flawed) theory, has no mandate to rule?

The conventional wisdom i referred to Bill is that engagement in the democratic process as it currently stands on an individual level will have a marked impact. I do not believe this to be true, and even though I would find believing it comforting have been shown that it is not now, nor will it become true in the near future. I believe that not challenging this assumption is more apathetic then pointing out the flaws in this system, even if I can offer no alternative at this point.

Bill I like you as a person, and have a lot of respect for you. Most of the things that i respect you for (Moving Target, and the way you treat your riders are big ones) probably stem from your Critical Engagement. I meant no disrespect to you in any of my posts. We disagree on a few issues about humanity, but as two intelligent adults I felt we could discus our views, and even if we fail to persuade one another, we could each refine our own theories, with out lose respect for one another.

I agree with what you say above about the flaws of the democratic process, but as I said before, if by voting you can strengthen the activities of people who are not only trying achieve change through the current democratic process, but are also committed to trying to change the rules, then it makes no sense not to vote, IMO. The Green Party is the parliamentary wing of a political movement that has always regarded engagement in the democratic process as an adjunct of political action that includes all forms of activity, not just getting elected. Sian Berry herself did much to bring the wickedness of 4 X 4s being used for the school run to public attention before she was ever selected to be candidate for Mayor, for example.

What you characterised as ad hominem attacks were in fact aimed at your lack of actual arguments. Up to this point you hadn't articulated any argument against voting beyond a very vague assertion that it was 'a waste of time'.

Green taxes have lost credibility. It's a massive problem, and part of the solution is what you suggest above.

BTW, did you vote in Tower Hamlets?

Politician wasn't though.

I had a look at your link and it says "The basic idea is that a claim is accepted as being true simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the claim." Translating this to our discussion I would phrase this as "The basic idea is that a politician/government is accepted as being good simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the politician/government." and you think that this shows a fundamental flaw with democracy.

I don't think this parallel can be drawn as easily as you suggest. The example in your link is a logical fallacy - people trying to prove objective truth on the basis of many people's subjective opinions. But electing a politician isn't an