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Old 23rd March 2008   #1
eeehhhh
I've searched on here so apologies if it's been posted before.

The title sums it up: Sugino Messenger vs Sugino 75. The 75s are three times the price, are they three times better (in terms of performance)? I do like the look of both cranks, but prefer the 75s. Then again I obviously prefer the price of the messengers.

They're not going to be used on the track. Any views? I can't seem to find much about them online.
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Old 23rd March 2008   #2
Roberto
 
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Can't remember the Messenger cranks but the Msgr chairings are not that great - the 75/Zen stuff is really bombproof, race proven.

Would go for Miche Primato if you are on a budget
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Old 23rd March 2008   #3
eeehhhh
What about the messenger chainrings makes them not so great? I'd rather go through 3 or 4 chainrings at £20 each over a couple years than pay £160 for one crankset and chainring for couple years.

Also, are the miche primato rings not 135mm bcd - are they not less common which means less choice? I'd prefer black as well, or silver+black chainring (but the mich chainring is horrible!)
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Old 23rd March 2008   #4
JC
I think you can get miche in black? I've got the old style silver set, but yeah, you can only get chainrings down to 46 - which if you ride a spinny gear means you end up with a load of massive sprockets.
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Old 23rd March 2008   #5
eeehhhh
Hmm, I've done a bit of googling and can't seem to find them. What is it that makes the miche cranks better than the messengers? Really worth the extra 40 notes?
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Old 23rd March 2008   #6
Roberto
 
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The new Miche cranks uses a 144BCD
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Old 23rd March 2008   #7
asm
Nah you can't get miche primato in black, i don;t think. I have black RDs, they're ok, pretty resilient.
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Old 23rd March 2008   #8
nimhbus
 
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the better ones are always BETTER, i find
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Old 23rd March 2008   #9
teenslain
 
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Aesthetically speaking, I don't like the Messenger rings, I think they look kinda cheap, which they are by comparison... 75s are the bollocks IMHO, well engineered, the rings fit the spider first time so no messin' around with getting it on straight... And the black are non-NJS... ;)
BTW I have a lightly used black 46t 75 ring in need of a home... 30gn...
And Chelsea RULE!
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Old 23rd March 2008   #10
edmundane
 
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you can get condor branded 60yr anniversary miche cranks in full black. think they're 144BCD and are CNC machined on the inside for lightness. don't know if they still sell them. i think they look better and perform better than sugino messengers.

all in all, 75's the shiznit, never heard anyone regretting spending any cash on them.
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Old 23rd March 2008   #11
eeehhhh
Quote:
edmundane:you can get condor branded 60yr anniversary miche cranks in full black. think they're 144BCD and are CNC machined on the inside for lightness. don't know if they still sell them. i think they look better and perform better than sugino messengers.
Yeah, I just found them on the Condor web site (well, they're in the pics). I'm back in London at the weekend, need to pick up my brake levers that I ordered from them so I'll see then. The 144mm bcd sounds good, I don't want to buy cranks and then struggle to find chainrings. I'll have a look.

Quote:
all in all, 75's the shiznit, never heard anyone regretting spending any cash on them.
Yeah, I know.... I spent probably 20 min looking around my room for shit to eBay! Just £160 + bb. It's a lot of £ for me, especially when I've got to pay my rent for uni halls soon. Ergh decisions!
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Old 23rd March 2008   #12
wheels
 
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75s and rings are machined (not stamped) to very high tolerances have a higher roundness factor (circularity) than Messengers (and just about any other crank - even posh road cranks - where circularity tends not to be a requirement as the derailleur acts as a chain tensioner to take up slack)- so 75s do not to generate binding points or tight spots in the arms rotation.
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Old 23rd March 2008   #13
empty7
 
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just picked up a pair of 75's from Brixton cycles for 90squid without chainring. 45 on top for that. Not a bad price at the moment.
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Old 23rd March 2008   #14
nimhbus
 
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Quote:
wheels:75s and rings are machined (not stamped) to very high tolerances have a higher roundness factor (circularity) than Messengers (and just about any other crank - even posh road cranks - where circularity tends not to be a requirement as the derailleur acts as a chain tensioner to take up slack)- so 75s do not to generate binding points or tight spots in the arms rotation.

nice theory, but my 75s have a tight spot...
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Old 23rd March 2008   #15
wheels
 
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correction:

75s and rings are machined (not stamped) to very high tolerances have a higher roundness factor (circularity) than Messengers (and just about any other crank - even posh road cranks - where circularity tends not to be a requirement as the derailleur acts as a chain tensioner to take up slack)- so 75s tend to generate less binding points or tight spots in the arms rotation.
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Old 23rd March 2008   #16
nimhbus
 
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i wish they didn't have a tight spot, it burns away at my soul
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Old 23rd March 2008   #17
docus
 
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^^^

Perhaps it's the chain rather than the chainring?
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Old 23rd March 2008   #18
nimhbus
 
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i don't think so.. how would that work then?
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Old 24th March 2008   #19
eeehhhh
ok, cheers for comments all.
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Old 24th March 2008   #20
B
just saw a pair of black miche with black ring on the condor site. Look pretty nice. 99 squids. I'm pretty much looking for the same as you, sort of concidering an older dura ace and getting it powder coated.

B.
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Old 24th March 2008   #21
eeehhhh
yeah, they do. the silver ones with the black chainring are just hideous, imo.



yuck!



much nicer.
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Old 25th March 2008   #22
miro_o
 
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£75 and then choose your own chainring.
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Old 25th March 2008   #23
oddsock
Quote:
nimhbus:i wish they didn't have a tight spot, it burns away at my soul
it might be the bb tapers or the mounting of cranks onto tapers - if the crank isn't exactly square with the bb axle then you'll get variation as it goes round.
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