Blair made a fair start of this and Brown's carrying on the good work. Be patient, Blackshirt.

Well, I encourage your optimistic approach to moving house, and hope it goes well when it happens?
If I didn't own so much of life's detritus, i too would try moving by bike?

dont you mean BROWNshrit?

ba dum ching

It kind of did when Bush lost but strangely also won florida. Personally I'm passionate about everyone voting even if they were voting BNP or something similarly repulsive. Its a long way from perfect but the more who actually get bothered the better it'll get.

£25?! for a day? that's a hell of a lot.

this is a debate i have had often with friends lets spare the forum it shall we?

and i know it is 100% my fault for bringing it up.

Not to the people who drive these chelsea tractors about. I'd double it for them anyday.

The fact is that £25 a day if you live in Essex and work in central London with a company car park is still going to be a better deal overall than public transport. Having grown up in France I have to say that the train, bus and subway system in the UK is a massive scandal. Late, slow, dirty, unsafe, and most of all... outrageously expensive.

Having said that I hope the new CC prices will reduce the number of cars in central London... We'll see.
I don't believe in this as an ecological solution though.

Oh and cars are fucking great to travel across Europe or any other country for that matter (apart from the UK, I hate driving here).
Nothing beats a good transalpine road trip for me. In this:


or this:


or that:


maybe this:


or that (although I haven't driven that one):



discuss.

Rarr rarr rarr! All I can hear in my head right now is roaring engines.

20 mph for all villages, towns and cities please.

lets get britain quiet and safe.

i'm with object.

on this matter.

I own a car. I can drive. But, driving 600k to see my parents is one thing. Driving to the shops because you're too lazy to walk is another. Driving to work when there's an adequate public transport system is again another.
It saddens me that 90% of the cars I'm passing on the way into work are occupied by a single person. Don't mind a road trip now and then. Understand cars have a use moving house, etc. But seriously, most of these people don't NEED to use their cars in London. It's this laziness and the unnecessary car journeys we want to get rid of. Will upping the C charge help? The first round appears to have been effective. Up it I say. £100/day minimum. £500 if you drive a 4x4. :)

Don't get me wrong - I drive in London maybe once every 2 months, actually usually on my way to Dover!
I'm just saying the CC isn't enough, as long as public transport is so crap here.

I say bring these:

You ever used Australian public transport le car (no, not the kangaroos)?

London's PT is shitloads better than anything Oz has to offer. That's one reason why we are little America when it comes to cars.

I've used a Kangoo

hell yeah, i love how the city of denvers attempt to stop drunk driving extended all inner city buses from 8pm until 10, and 2 routes from 10pm to 12am. with last buses leaving/ arriving central at shown times. buses dont start again untill around 6/6.30am

bars close at 2am, clubs between 2-3am

all buses end an hour and a half early saturday night. no buses until at least 8am sunday, and no service on a lot of routes.

Clever.

motorists complain of being "priced off the road" yet more cars appear every month and as Yorgo says, it's still cheaper than PT.

I thought the idea was to use revenue from congestion charges to improve PT and make it a viable alternative to driving, but the costs of that go up every year (the tube is outrageously expensive) ?

Ken's put lots of buses on the road, but they are traffic too and cause no end of congestion and pollution , most I see (excluding oxford st etc) are near empty unless it's school time. And with stops being so close together it encourages the lazy to never walk more than ten yards.
Not enough people walk, not near enough. and I mean decent distances, not just a mile to the nearest tube station.
Never mind cycling, get these slobs walking a bit, it's free!

Now I don't understand quite how this works, but apparently the government are "in debt" to something in the billions, so we have in place a structure that wastes our money, lies about where it is spent and is all the time running up huge debt without much to show for it but a few bendy buses.

If they were your accountants, you'd sack them.

That pisses me off to. When I was living in South Eailing there was a "express bus" that went from Acton to S.B, it was really good it stopped alot less.

I have not seen this any where else. Nr where I live now there is a big housing area which could really do with express buses to tube / train staions as there is no train / tube near by. There are alot of dual carrage ways though.

I am with you on that one it is the inapropeat use.
Yep two people, idealy 3 or more and a car is not that bad, it is the fact that most are ofcourse a massive box with one person in along line of traffic of other boxs with one person. One of the reasons I pick up hitch hikers when driving on my own. Even though most of them can be very trying.
There is a problem with the the way things are set up at the moment that (in genral not to do with c charge) that if you have a car which you use occatinally but still need it for odd occational uses, there is no real incentive NOT to use it. Some one pays the say car tax weather they have a car for a bi monethly journey or a drive 500 miles a week. This is why I am so for road pricing as it does not stop people from having a car for the ligitamet uses but encourage poeple only use it for those uses and not hte lazy one mile trips.

Aren't their insurance policies for cars that are 'only' driven on weekends, for example?
There's an incentive. Why don't the govs registration policies reflect those of the insurance companies in this case?

Feck i need to switch insurers

More just low milage insurance, but the difference is not massive.

because it is an unpopular move as people like there lazy one mile journeys hence the don't want to do good things which are unpopoular, they would rather do bad things which are popular.

You can actually visually see you fart? Props for that!!

Have a play about with this map:

http://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/virtualmaps.asp?view=maps

Select some pollutants from the drop down menu, tick congestion charge zone, and then see what's changed since 2003...

There's been a tangible improvement in air quality for those like myself who live in Central London, and I've heard that the asthma epidemic amongst school children from a few years back has subsided as well.

That's cool.

Ken has just proposed to do exactly that. See the "Cycle Highways" thread. The main attention has been on the actual highways, but there is also the proposal to copy Paris' Velib system.

The X68 is another one of these, it goes express from Euston to West Norwood, but only at rush hour. Seems like a good isea to me.

tommy i'm sure you have never picked up a hitch hiker as scary as me.

engalnd is awesome for hitching, ireland is even better. cant catch out though :(

No I think you would top my list if I did not know you. My friend From Czech Republic always says how people in europe just pick up becasue it is what they do but people in the uk always pick you up becasue they are scared for your safty that a phyco may pick you up.

What does "cant catch out though" mean?

catch out- hop a freight train

Have your say about the Western Extension, before Oct 5th..
https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/roadusers...-your-say.aspx

Email from LCC..
The congestion charge works for cycling, but it risks being scrapped. It is essential that you make your views known to the TfL consultation.
We have until 5th October to tell the Mayor not to scrap the western extension of the congestion charge. Boris Johnson has asked for your views, so don't lose this chance to support the congestion charge.
The original central London congestion charge led to an immediate reduction in motor vehicle traffic and a 30% increase in cycling. Pollution levels went down and the health of Londoners went up. The congestion charge raises vital income to support sustainable transport and a more liveable London.
The western extension of the congestion charge encouraged cycling and initially resulted in a 20% decrease in congestion. Major roadworks in the area have reduced the congestion impact, but without the charge congestion would be far far worse.
The Mayor and his advisors are known to be critical of the congestion charge. Boris Johnson is asking for views on whether the western extension should remain as it is; should be removed; or whether it should be altered. None of the alterations suggested in the consultation will reduce congestion and may even increase it.
London is renowned globally for the political courage in introducing congestion charging. Don't let things slip back and see worse conditions for cycling and growth in motor traffic, congestion and pollution.
London Cycling Campaign is calling on the Mayor to retain the western congestion zone and strengthen its impact on reducing congestion.

Thanks for the reminder Hippy

there's somethign fishy about pushin out west, where there is a predominance of large private vehicle owners that will get out of having to pay the charge as they live in the vicinity.