So I'm on the build queue and have a 12 month wait for my new stead. I thought I'd start a discussion on the man and his bikes, and document my build at the same time.

You can view his site and a small selection of his work over here:
Robin Mather Cycles

And some images to whet your appetite:

you. complete. tart.

[jealous, moi?]

good stuff david, do we take it that RM will be making your do everything bike?

will be interesting to follow the build, nice one

crisp

What are you having made, or is that a secret?
(Don't say "a bike", like I would...)

So what I've asked for is the difficult one, an all-rounder.

It's going to be for commuting, touring, shopping, audaxes/distance, rides down the side of the Thames, travelling. Basically everything that I do most on a bike (note I've excluded racing because frankly I don't and I still have the Serotta, and I've excluded polo because I haven't yet and I would use something else).

I'm going for a frame as clean/minimalist and classic as possible, yet with enough flexibility to be able to offer several positions and permutations.

So the frame will have mudguard and rack hangars, with a more comfortable geometry.

I'm also thinking of a front rack similar to the ones on a Kogswell. A rear rack. Full mudguards. All colour matched (or complimentary colours) and removable. Additionally to have a couple of stems for different riding positions/styles, and a couple of wheelsets for different uses (cross vs touring/audax at least). The touring wheel set would include a front hub with built-in dynamo for the two front headlights (mounted on the front rack).

Lots of ideas. I have a month or two to really tie them down, so at the moment everything is on the table and I'll reduce the requirements and discard the silly things a little later when I start prioritising.

Oh, and it will have couplers.

ker,ching!!!!!! £$€£$€£$€£$€£$€£$€£$€£$€£$€£$€

I'm hoping he will do everything.

I want to see what that kind of full control allows him to make.

I've already said to Robin that I want the heritage of a British hand-built steel bike to be reflected (like the touch of the wrapover stay on my Bob Jackson), but not to be bound strictly to echoing the past. I've also invited Robin to suggest ideas to give the bike some touches that take that heritage and his work and style and carries it forward.

I'm not sure what I'll get. I just know what I want to use it for.

I'm on Robin's waiting list, in fact I'm having a second meeting with him on Wednesday. The waiting list was initially put at three months and it's been six so far, but that's still nothing compared to someone like Sacha White (Vanilla Cycles) and I'm happy riding my current bike at the moment.

Mine's going to be an all-rounder much like David's - the plan is for Paul's Racer brakes, Honjo mudguards, a custom Mather rear rack, Schmidt dynohub powering a SuperNova light, clearance for 32c tyres, geometry similar to my Merckx Corsa Extra. Slinky lugs....

Colour seems to be the hardest choice - currently thinking dark grey metallic with a bordeaux metallic head and seat tube?

Looks great Dave!

"sounds" surely jon :)

Looksl ike it will be a nice bike. I like his website, no nocence.

schmidt dyno hub I presume.

What rear spacing are you going for 120 mm or 130 / 135 mm so you could squees in a rohloff if you want to do some more out of the way hilly rides/ oturs?

I am very close to plunking down for a vanilla all rounder myself...

With the dollar right now, they're starting to look reasonable value, but the price you pay is the one on the day you recieve the frame. If his prices keep rising to reflect the demand, and the dollar tanks, you could be buying a very expensive bicycle when your turn comes around in 5-6 years.

IMHO Robin offers 95% of the output for less money and less waiting time. From my discussions with him so far, he's open to trying pretty much anything (i.e. he'd quite like to put a Plexus / Terraplane style rear end on my frame) and as long as you're willing to pay the cost of his additional time. He'll work with Argos to spray it up any which way you want as well.

Oh, and if I wanted an all-rounder from a truly understated master builder I'd be 'phoning J P Weigle. The man's a master, eRichie for audax types atmo.

are you going to put a hed3 on it?

LOL, nice one glow.

I thought about all that, but in the end no other bike gave me the same gut reaction as Sacha's. That settled it.

Amazing. Yum.

Is it me or are the Paul ends a bit ugly?

It's you. Paul ends. Phwwwwwoooooar! I would, etc etc. *ahem*

No, they're nice.

don't know if you're interested in this for an 'in the meantime' bike David.....but surly are releasing a new version of the cross check called the 'travellers check'....it's the same as the standard frame but comes fitted with the S & S couplers.....would be the perfect bike to tide you over,cos custom builders have a tendancy to 'run over' the estimated time.
the surly is due for jan/feb kinda time.

Meh.
Remind me of peking ducks in chinatown.

edible?!

Overdone.

I think Jol is referring to the Paul ends.

I'm not a huge fan of them. They look pretty tech but they seem to be kinda positioned wrong. Kinda like the back end has been cut short a bit.

RH looks like he makes some nice stuff though, looking forward to some progress reports/pics guys.

Hmmm. I have a dilemma. What type of drops to go for?

I want to be able to fit full mudguards from time to time, especially for some of the touring/winter commuting stuff.

If I have track ends a puncture or flip flop is going to require removal of the mudguard.

If I go for drops I would solve the removal of the mudguard problem as the wheel would be removed vertically. However then I get the chain tension problem and would have to consider an eccentric bottom bracket to be able to use standard hubs and still tension the chain.

Has anyone ever used an eccentric bottom bracket? Are they adjustable quickly? Does the difference in tension positions have any noticeable impact on the riding position? (Could 1cm change in BB position make any difference?)

I quite like the idea of having vertical drops and constant chain tension set by an eccentric BB, for the speed of whipping out the rear wheel. It would make fixing punctures so simple, and flip flopping so incredibly quick. What do I don't know is what the downsides to an eccentric BB are.

Ask the boy Mather.

One of the bikes on his site has one.

i have an EBB it's a piece of piss to use and gives no bother at all. but make sure you get a phil wood one as the other bushnell units are a pain in the arse with all the moving parts inside that need covering in copperslip to stop creaking.
if you are that picky about position changes all you would need to do is move the saddle and seatpost back/forward and up/down to compensate when tensioning the chain, but once set you are hardly likely to move it far and probably the same distance as a change in the thickness of your shorts or the sole of a shoe.
i have seen some of the phill ebb's installed with the bolts pointing upwards which is easier to get to. independent fabrication use phil EBB's maybe ask them if they recommend them for fixed use.

the EBB shell on my mtb was made by independent fabrication as this was the only place at the time to get a shell made for a phil EBB. the frame is a protoype that a mate was having built (in taiwan) for me to test. it's the only I.F. bike part i'm likely to own :-)

I saw Robin when I was in Bath yesterday - he's a really top guy and we spent ages talking about Witcomb, Richard Sachs, the NAHBS and a bunch of other things. Really, if you're thinking about getting a bike from him go ahead and do it - the waiting list is ~1 year and will only get longer.....

I've had a few EBBs - chain tensioning is fine, not sure I've ever noticed the changes in the BB positioning, and if they're strong enough for off-road and tandems they'll be fine for a fix. I'd second the comments on the Phil Wood units though - a lot easier to use, and you can have neatly-mounted grub screws to adjust it (Jeff Jones puts them on the top of the BB shell just behind the seat-tube junction)

Would it not be easier to have (semi-)horizontal drop-outs, rather than vertical or track ends? You wouldn't be able to have such a tight clearance against the seat-tube, but if you're having mudguards, no biggie.

Only if you have the same tooth cog/freewheel on each side. It would make flip flopping a bit of pain in the arse otherwise cos you'd have to adjust the EBB as well as flipping the wheel around.

Why not use long Campy horizontals, as suggested above? Makes fixing punctures and flip flopping very quick and is much simpler than an EBB. Not hi tech enough? :)

Mind you an EBB would be pretty cool.

Oooh:
Campagnolo 1010

Damn nice.

For some reason I didn't think they were still made!

are you getting custom made panniers david.....meaning nice ones to match the bike?

Are they still made? Clones on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Campagnolo-Design-1010-b-Dropouts-Fork-Ends-Pads-NOS_W0QQitemZ200162034529QQihZ010QQcategoryZ56197Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem