right. i've just watched Chris Hoy vs Mickael Bourgain in their sprint semi-final. now i'm not trying to be funny, this is not a poms vs aussies bullshit comment, but what the fuck? bourgain is no shitkicker, he's a fucking good sprinter... and that was Chris Hoy's Ricco moment. i hate being a cynic, but fucking hell...

it should not be that easy.

i fucking hope i'm wrong, and i know a lot of you are gonna fucking hate me sayng this, but i've never seen that sort of shit before. that was far too easy. this sport is usually much closer than that. can someone please explain this? hippy?

he is the real deal

so was lance armstrong.

he was indeed

... and carl lewis, marion jones and jan ullrich.

So far as I know everyone who has won a medal has been tested immediately after their race, so I doubt doping has played any part at all, if that's what you're driving at.

Though of course I suspect going to Bolivia back in May or whenever it was probably helped boost his haemocrit a bit if he kept the tempo up after he left there. The altitude effect wears off for most people after a few days back at sea level, but if you're doing heavy cardio training it may not, I'm not sure.

In any case, I suspect the main thing is that the team GB amateurs are kinda full-time amateurs, which not many others in the competition can afford to be.

edit to add -

I'm a bit dismayed by the incipient backlash. The team broke several records at this Olympics; Hoy has broken quite a few himself in the recent past and almost broke that one for the kilo at altitude up in Bolivia, which I suspect he would have got if he'd stayed there long enough to really acclimatise. I daresay he and the rest of the team have been tested a lot as a result, because people do naturally get suspicious when it looks that easy.

Plus - d'you really think we'd take the risk of funding blood-doping scandals out of Lottery money?

you can't rubbish a seven times tour winner with guilt by association

we all know testing is next to useless. don't make me reel off the names of disgraced athletes from various sports who never tested positive but have admitted doping. the drugs are always ahead of the tests.

altitude training in may is completely irrelevant. it doesn't last that long, doping or not.

tautology.

breaking records is definitely not proof of non-doping. nor is anything achieved at altitude on his own 3 months ago. times are always quicker at altitude, especially in non-endurance sports (see how many track and field records were set at the 1968 mexico city olympics). again, testing does not prove non-doping (sadly - see marion jones, dwayne chambers or bjarne riis). you have to compare performance against competitors (who share roughly similar physiological gifts and all train bloody hard no matter where they're from) in the same conditions. in the particular conditions in Beijing, the gap between two riders who have been closely matched over several years is suddenly fucking massive. this is hard to explain considering hoy's past record against Bourgain (they are pretty evenly matched in lifetime results). it's not as if bourgain is suddenly shit - he still beat everyone else except the other british bloke.

do you really think that someone who was doping would call up the funding authorities and say, "No, don't give me any money, i'm on the gear".
I doubt it.

His statement is not tautologist, he is making a distinction between those amateurs who do not dedicate all their time to their sport and those (like the GB cycling team) who - through funding - can work full time on their sport, whilst still remaining (technically) amateur.

if you believe lance was clean despite his association with Dr Ferrari, and his amazing ability to routinely destroy freak athletes who were on drugs, like pantani, basso and ullrich, plus the constant stream of his former teammates who have tested positive (heras, hamilton, landis, vinokourov, beltran... the list goes on), then go for it.

i prefer to take the pragmatic view that he was on it like a bastard, but was smart enough that he never got caught.

bullshit. if you are able, through funding provided to that end, to work full-time at your sport, you are no longer amateur.

P.S where can I watch the Chris Hoy vs Mickael Bourgain sprint semi-final ?

I looked around the BBC olympic coverage on their website but couldn't find it ?

i dunno, i just saw it on a replay on the red button coverage.

If funded amateurs are professionals (I hope you are applying the law of the excluded middle here) then there is no tautology in h2o's statement:

"In any case, I suspect the main thing is that the team GB amateurs are kinda full-time amateurs, which not many others in the competition can afford to be."

ok it's not a tautology, i was wrong. it's more of an oxymoron (sorry - it's late).

the semantic distinction between professional and "full-time amateur" is meaningless in practice. i don't give a fuck if they're paid by a professional team or by a government funding body, they're paid to focus on their sport. full stop. the amateur/professional distinction is an anachronism. "full-time amateurs"? no such thing.

and i hate to break it to you, but GB is not the only country that pays its cyclists to focus on their events....

[insert rolling eyes icon!]

I think I will leave you and your late night internet style of argument to have fun with someone else !

;P

BMX on BBC 1 right now. :)

Maybe more of a Sastre moment hyped up to be the first briton in a hundred years to win three golds he looks equally as strong in the world championships and Bourgain probably knew deep down he was already beat . Ricco thought he was Pantani which was a bit of a give away.

did cadel evans take the wrong kind of drugs this year? do you think he will take the right kind next year?

GMTV - now - Terry Dolan

The reporter was in a bike shop in Ormskirk sitting on a Dolan track bike. Maybe they will repeat the item later (if you can stand watching the rest of the show)

Don't be daft, we're not talking about Abramovich-style yachts here, but racing dinghies. My Enterprise was a damn sight cheaper than my Wilier road bike...

Victoria Pendleton had won gold and was entitled to feel the centre of attention, she was delighted to join the chorus. “Chris is a legend,” she said. “Everyone asks me, ‘Who is my sporting hero?' thinking I'd choose someone from history. And I say, ‘It's Chris Hoy.' He's an inspiration. He's a real role model and someone of whom we in the UK should pay more attention.”

The Real McKoy...?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle4568444.ece

right, i was a bit combative last night, and i apologise to anyone i offended. but i still reckon hoy's performances raise suspicion. maybe he really is that good, but watching other "clean" heroes like marion jones, tim montgomery and justin gatlin fall from grace has made me a cynic.

i also realise the impossibility of proving someone is not a cheat.

you're ignoring the psychological effects that a dominant team has on other riders, read Hoy's blog and he mentions how the competition's morale visibly dropped when GB started bossing the velodrome. Bourgaine is of course a good sprinter, but he knew he couldn't beat hoy at this olympics, he knew it long before the semi-final.

mental fitness is important and team GB are the only team with a full time psychiatrist in the pen at the drome.

this piece on bolt sums up my dilemma on hoy nicely.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle4551370.ece

Aussie BMX rider called Kamikaze? Brilliant! :D

Liam philips GB DNQ

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/EN...html#CBW001920

looks like shinny crashed or had a problem in the first seeding run but posted the fastest time of the second run, puts her in 2nd place behind anne-caro...

She crashed on the first bank for her 1st run. Bit of elbow grazing is all. She did good in the second run.

French lass did fastest time in 1st run but crashed in the second (she did a great endo to face plant). She was looking good though and reckon she might take it.

I thought Bourgaine just shut it down because he knew he was beaten?
Maybe I'm thinking of another race.. I'd probably lost interest by then :)
All I cared about was Anna getting a medal.

I see Australia have fallen to 5th in the medals table and are dropping further behind GB as each day passes ;)